medium ... distributions only ...
high fiscal_week_id (lead index)
low (index columns)
Peter Logan
Senior Database Administrator
Phone: 616/878-8309
From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
To: ids@iiug.org
Date: 03/29/2012 02:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26610]
Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
What level of stats?
Art
Art S. Kagel
Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated
nor
those of the entities themselves.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> You may be right ... I just updated the stats on all the tables and now
I
> get the bad plan no matter what ...
>
> Peter Logan
> Senior Database Administrator
> Phone: 616/878-8309
>
> From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> To: ids@iiug.org
> Date: 03/29/2012 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26606]
> Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
>
> Yeah, I don't think so (on the optimizer executing the function).
However,
>
> you note that the query plan changes even when you hardwire different
> values for the week id that would be the output of the function, so I'm
> still thinking it has something to do with the quality of the data
> distributions.
>
> Art
>
> Art S. Kagel
> Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
> other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
> other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated
> nor
> those of the entities themselves.
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
>
> > Haven't tried that yet ...
> >
> > But what I don't understand .. is why the optimizer would pick a
> different
> > path ... the only difference is the day the query is run .....which
> > obviously will change the returned value from the weekid function ...
is
>
> > it somehow executing that part of the sql to determine the query plan
> .....
> >
> > Peter Logan
> > Senior Database Administrator
> > Phone: 616/878-8309
> >
> > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> > To: ids@iiug.org
> > Date: 03/29/2012 11:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26604]
> > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> >
> > Don't know the reporting tool you are using, but couldn't you just
> include
> >
> > the statement in the stream of SQL statements? LIke:
> >
> > "set optimization low; <big query>; set optimization high;"
> >
> > Also, are you completely certain that the data distributions on the
two
> > tables that are being directly affected by the week id (so
> > week_to_year_lkp
> > and efin_wk_line_cls) are current and sufficiently detailed? Have you
> > tried increasing the resolution for the HIGH on the
> > week_to_year_lkp.fiscal_week_id, efin_wk_line_cls.fiscal_week_id, and
> > week_to_year_lkp.fiscal_wty_id columns beyond the default 2.5%?
> >
> > Art
> >
> > Art S. Kagel
> > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
opinions
>
> > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor
any
>
> > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those
of
> > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am
affiliated
> > nor
> > those of the entities themselves.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand ... but from what I understand the client tool can only
> set
> >
> > > this at the beginning ....
> > >
> > > Peter Logan
> > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > >
> > > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > Date: 03/29/2012 10:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26602]
> > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > >
> > > No, you can switch between OPTIMIZATION LOW; and OPTIMIZATION HIGH;
> > > between
> > > queries. It would be nice if they would just add these are optimizer
> > > directives though, like ALL_ROWS and FIRST_ROWS optimizer goals.
> > >
> > > That's a hint Fernando!
> > >
> > > Art
> > >
> > > Art S. Kagel
> > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> opinions
> >
> > > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor
> any
> >
> > > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those
> of
> > > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am
> affiliated
> > > nor
> > > those of the entities themselves.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Art,
> > > >
> > > > yes .. and that does help this particular query ... the issue
though
>
> > is
> > > > that this is only one part of a larger set of queries...and the
> > > > optimization being set low has a negative impact on the entire
> stream
> > > ....
> > > > and they can't turn that off and back on .... can only set it for
> the
> > > > session ...
> > > >
> > > > Peter Logan
> > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > >
> > > > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > Date: 03/29/2012 10:24 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26600]
> > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > > >
> > > > One thing Peter, have you tried running this query under SET
> > > OPTIMIZATION
> > > > LOW? You have 10 tables in there, I'm willing to bet that a
> > significant
> > > > portion of the runtime is optimizing the query since there are
> > 3,628,800
> > >
> > > > query plans that have to be examined and have cost calculated
under
> > the
> > > > default HIGH optimization method versus only 54 query plans under
> LOW
> > > > optimization.
> > > >
> > > > Art
> > > >
> > > > Art S. Kagel
> > > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> > opinions
> > >
> > > > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG,
nor
>
> > any
> > >
> > > > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > > > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect
those
>
> > of
> > > > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am
> > affiliated
> > > > nor
> > > > those of the entities themselves.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ok .. here is the really strange thing ...
> > > > >
> > > > > If I do away with the function ... and put in place the fiscal
> week
> > id
> > >
> > > > ....
> > > > > then up until week 36 one query plan is used ... and then from
> week
> > 37
> > >
> > > > on,
> > > > > a different query plan is used ... The first plan runs in a
> > > minute...the
> > > >
> > > > > second several minutes ... when I put the directive on the query
> and
> >
> > > > > force it to use the order of the tables that was chosen by the
> > > optimizer
> > > >
> > > > > it always runs in a minute ...
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm trying to see if an external directive will work for this
one
> ...
> >
> > > > just
> > > > > to give them that as a choice .. but I can't seem to get that
> > working
> > > > ....
> > > > > I can save the external directive, but when I execute the sql,
the
>
> > > > > explain doesn't show the directive being used ... and I'm using
> the
> > > > exact
> > > > > sql to create the directive as well as execute the sql ...
> wondering
> >
> > > if
> > > > > the function in the sql is messing that up ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Logan
> > > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Fernando Nunes" <domusonline@gmail.com>
> > > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > > Date: 03/29/2012 09:52 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26597]
> > > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmmm.... Yes, I think I can understand the point, although
tables
> > > schema
> > > >
> > > > > would help.
> > > > > I believe the problem is a well known issue (notice I use
"issue"
> > > > instead
> > > > > of "bug"). And recent versions have been seeing changes in that
> > area.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would I be correct to assume the bad query plan is using a
> > > date/datetime
> > > >
> > > > > index? This could be one source of the problem, but in your case
> > it's
> > > > > probably another issue.
> > > > > You're asking the optimizer to calculate a query plan based on
the
>
> > > > unknown
> > > > >
> > > > > result of a user function. As such the optimizer must
> > > consider/estimate
> > > > a
> > > > > selectivity. Too low will make that index non attractive, and
too
> > high
> > >
> > > > > makes it too attractive. And the dramatic issue is that it has
no
> > way
> > > to
> > > >
> > > > > make a good estimate.
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe that recent versions (11.50.FC9 and maybe 11.70.FC2/3)
> may
> >
> > > > have
> > > > > change the way this selectivity is calculated. This solved many
> > > > customer's
> > > > >
> > > > > problems and probably caused problems to many others...
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not in developing but I believe 11.70.FC4 may have changed
> this.
> >
> > > And
> > > >
> > > > > eventually some improvements may appear in the future. Would it
be
>
> > too
> > >
> > > > > hard
> > > > > for you to try that query on 11.70.FC4?
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, if you had the chance to avoid the use of the
function
> > and
> > > > give
> > > > >
> > > > > it the value the problem should not happen.
> > > > > If you're sure that the query should NEVER use that index (on
the
> > > column
> > > >
> > > > > you're comparing with the function result), you can use some
sort
> of
> >
> > > > > operation on it. For example:
> > > > >
> > > > > my_column + 0 UNITS DAY = ( SELECT WEEKID(...) FROM systables
> WHERE
> > > > tabid
> > > > > =
> > > > > 0)
> > > > >
> > > > > This will avoid the use of any index on that column and will not
> > > change
> > > > > the
> > > > > result set... hmmmm... But again, if that's a query generated
from
> a
> >
> > > > tool
> > > > > this may not be feasible.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S.: Above I avoided using the term "bug" because this is a
nasty
>
> > > > > situation... We must consider some value for selectivity, but we
> > have
> > > no
> > > >
> > > > > idea about the possible or probable result of the function. So
> > > basically
> > > >
> > > > > we're blind... I can't imagine a good solution (that will fit
all
> > the
> > > > > scenarios) for this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the reply ... Yes, the auto stats updating has been
> > > > disabled
> > > > > > ... and I am aware of the external optimizer directives ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me try to sum this up a little differently ... when the
date
>
> > was
> > >
> > > > say
> > > > >
> > > > > > 9/15/2011 .... one query plan was followed ... the one that
> works
> > > ....
> > > > > now
> > > > > > that the date is 3/28/2012 ... the optimizer is choosing a
> > different
> > >
> > > > > path
> > > > > > ... so, what it seems to me is that the optimizer must be
> > evaluating
> > >
> > > > > that
> > > > > > part of the query .. and then figuring out the query plan from
> > there
> > >
> > > > ....
> > > > > I
> > > > > > could understand that if this was a constant, but this isn't
...
>
> > the
> > >
> > > > > > select weekid(today, -1) from systables where tabid = 1 is a
> > > procedure
> > > >
> > > > > > that brings back the fiscal week id .. ie 201252 ... does that
> > make
> > > a
> > > > > > little ore sense ... I'm trying to figure out if the optimizer
> is
> > > > making
> > > > >
> > > > > > that evaluation .. then coming up with the plan.... and if so,
> how
> >
> > > to
> > > > > keep
> > > > > > it from doing that ....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Logan
> > > > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "Fernando Nunes" <domusonline@gmail.com>
> > > > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > > > Date: 03/28/2012 05:11 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26592]
> > > > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm afraid I didn't understand your point correctly. You
mention
>
> > the
> > >
> > > > > > select
> > > > > > from systables but I didn't understand how it's relevant for
the
>
> > > > > problem.
> > > > > > Are you saying that query presented works fine but if you use
> the
> > > > select
> > > > >
> > > > > > from systables instead of:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a12.fiscal_week_id in (201253)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It will break the query plan?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In any case a few warnings and maybe some useful information:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - 11.7 alreay includes the AUTO_STAT_MODE parameter. This
> > activates
> > > or
> > > >
> > > > > > deactivates the optimization that says to the engine that "if
> the
> > > > table
> > > > > > doesn't change too much don't bother to update it's
statistics".
> I
> >
> > > had
> > > > a
> > > > >
> > > > > > recent situation where the default threshold was causing some
> > > stalled
> > > > > > statistics and it made a difference on the query plans. And
the
> > > > > > probability
> > > > > > that this happens with queries involving time/dates is higher
> than
> >
> > > > with
> > > > > > other types of filters (because these fields many times tend
to
> be
> >
> > > > > > populated with constantly increasing values, so statistically
> > > > something
> > > > > > that makes the filter "column > today - some_time" look good
> will
> > in
> > >
> > > > > time
> > > > > > lead to bad choices)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - You can activate optimizer directives for any query outside
> the
> > > > > > applications by using the External Directives feature. I will
> not
> > go
> > >
> > > > > into
> > > > > > details, because it could take a while, but if you're not
aware
> of
> >
> > > > this
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > need further information, please tell. In any case I'm against
> the
> >
> > > > > > principle of using directives to solve query plans problems...
> > after
> > >
> > > > all
> > > > >
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > have an optimizer... we're not Oracle :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, my advise:
> > > > > > - Verify that the distributions are really up to date (disable
> > > > > > AUTO_STAT_MODE) and run them (it's dynamic and I believe
there's
> a
> >
> > > way
> > > >
> > > > > to
> > > > > > control it inside the session (either with SET ENVIRONMENT or
> with
> > a
> > >
> > > > > > environment variable)
> > > > > > - If you never used the external optimizer directives, please
> > > > > investigate
> > > > > > them. Sometimes you can get away with them to quickly solve a
> > > > > performance
> > > > > > problem. But my advise is to always investigate this kind of
> > > problems
> > > > > and
> > > > > > find a definitive solution
> > > > > > - You could of course re-post your problem in a manner I can
> > > > understand,
> > > > >
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > wait until someone smarter to answer you :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com
<
>
> > > > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aix 6.1
> > > > > > > IDS 11.70.fc3
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The below query was executing ok, and then recently it
started
>
> > > > taking
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > lot longer... In looking at the query plans, the order of
the
> > > tables
> > > >
> > > > > > > changed a few weeks ago... Amount of data and stats in the
> > tables
> > > > > > haven't
> > > > > > > changed dramatically ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The question I have, is ... Is the optimizer smart enough to
> > > execute
> > > >
> > > > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > (select weekid(today, -1) from systables where tabid = 1 ...
I
>
> > can
> > >
> > > > > > > duplicate if I take that select out and hard code the fiscal
> > week
> > > id
> > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > > runs about a minute .. then runs about 4 minutes. The query
> plan
> >
> > > > > changes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ... If I do run the query with the directive ... then I can
> > > > > consistently
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > get it to run around a minute .. The problem is that this is
a
>
> > > Micro
> > > >
> > > > > > > Strategies report, so that optimizer directive can't be
> included
> >
> > > > .....
> > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peter Logan
> > > > > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > > > > > ----- Forwarded by Peter Logan/Corporate/Spartan on
03/28/2012
>
> > > 03:53
> > > >
> > > > > PM
> > > > > > > -----
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: plisad0 (spartan02) <plisad0@spartanstores.com>
> > > > > > > To: Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com
> > > > > > > Date: 03/28/2012 03:52 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Optimizer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -- select --+ORDERED
> > > > > > > select
> > > > > > > a18.mdse_grp_key mdse_grp_key,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a12.fiscal_week_id fiscal_week_id,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a13.catgy_manager_key catgy_manager_key,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (sum(a11.total_sales_amt) * 0.001) WJXBFS1,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sum(a11.ext_profit_amt) WJXBFS2,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sum(a11.total_sales_amt) WJXBFS3,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sum(a11.ext_profit_amt) WJXBFS4
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > week_to_year_lkp a12,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > channel a16,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > chain a15,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > line a14,
> > > > > > > efin_wk_line_cls a11,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > mdse_class_manager a13,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > mdse_class a17,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > mdse_category a18,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > mdse_group a19,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > department a110,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > business_dept a111
> > > > > > > where a11.fiscal_week_id = a12.fiscal_wty_id and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a11.mdse_class_key = a13.mdse_class_key and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a11.sales_line_id = a14.sales_line_id and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a14.sales_chain_id = a15.sales_chain_id and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a15.sales_channel_id = a16.sales_channel_id and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a11.mdse_class_key = a17.mdse_class_key and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a17.mdse_catgy_key = a18.mdse_catgy_key and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a18.mdse_grp_key = a19.mdse_grp_key and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a19.dept_key = a110.dept_key and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a110.bus_dept_key = a111.bus_dept_key
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and (a16.enterprise_id in (18)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and a13.catgy_manager_key in (70)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and a110.dept_grp_key not in (525, 9)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and a14.format_type_id in ('SUPERMKT ')
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and a12.fiscal_week_id in (201253)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > and a111.dept_grp_type_key in (1))
> > > > > > > group by a18.mdse_grp_key,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a12.fiscal_week_id,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a13.catgy_manager_key
> > > > > > > into temp ZZMD03 with no log
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> > > forum.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Fernando Nunes
> > > > > > Portugal
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
> > > > > > My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --0023544710d08e6fef04bc540bf4
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> >
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> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> > forum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> > forum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Fernando Nunes
> > > > > Portugal
> > > > >
> > > > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
> > > > > My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
> > > > >
> > > > > --20cf3074d934d0d33704bc6205a4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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>
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> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --e89a8f3ba75f130a3204bc62783a
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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>
> >
> > >
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --14dae93406612b710604bc62e2a6
> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> >
> > >
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
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> >
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --90e6ba6e8f247d81ca04bc639641
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --e89a8f3ba503bf128404bc64669d
>
>
>
>
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>
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
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>
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> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--e89a8f3ba75f255b6a04bc657d70
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Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
