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IDS Forum
Re: Fw: Optimizer
Posted By: Art Kagel
Date: Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 12:42 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Fw: Optimizer (Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com)
Yeah, I don't think so (on the optimizer executing the function). However,
you note that the query plan changes even when you hardwire different
values for the week id that would be the output of the function, so I'm
still thinking it has something to do with the quality of the data
distributions.
Art
Art S. Kagel
Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor
those of the entities themselves.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> Haven't tried that yet ...
>
> But what I don't understand .. is why the optimizer would pick a different
> path ... the only difference is the day the query is run .....which
> obviously will change the returned value from the weekid function ... is
> it somehow executing that part of the sql to determine the query plan ....
>
> Peter Logan
> Senior Database Administrator
> Phone: 616/878-8309
>
> From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> To: ids@iiug.org
> Date: 03/29/2012 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26604]
> Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
>
> Don't know the reporting tool you are using, but couldn't you just include
>
> the statement in the stream of SQL statements? LIke:
>
> "set optimization low; <big query>; set optimization high;"
>
> Also, are you completely certain that the data distributions on the two
> tables that are being directly affected by the week id (so
> week_to_year_lkp
> and efin_wk_line_cls) are current and sufficiently detailed? Have you
> tried increasing the resolution for the HIGH on the
> week_to_year_lkp.fiscal_week_id, efin_wk_line_cls.fiscal_week_id, and
> week_to_year_lkp.fiscal_wty_id columns beyond the default 2.5%?
>
> Art
>
> Art S. Kagel
> Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
> other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
> other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated
> nor
> those of the entities themselves.
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
>
> > I understand ... but from what I understand the client tool can only set
>
> > this at the beginning ....
> >
> > Peter Logan
> > Senior Database Administrator
> > Phone: 616/878-8309
> >
> > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> > To: ids@iiug.org
> > Date: 03/29/2012 10:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26602]
> > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> >
> > No, you can switch between OPTIMIZATION LOW; and OPTIMIZATION HIGH;
> > between
> > queries. It would be nice if they would just add these are optimizer
> > directives though, like ALL_ROWS and FIRST_ROWS optimizer goals.
> >
> > That's a hint Fernando!
> >
> > Art
> >
> > Art S. Kagel
> > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
>
> > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
>
> > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
> > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated
> > nor
> > those of the entities themselves.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Art,
> > >
> > > yes .. and that does help this particular query ... the issue though
> is
> > > that this is only one part of a larger set of queries...and the
> > > optimization being set low has a negative impact on the entire stream
> > ....
> > > and they can't turn that off and back on .... can only set it for the
> > > session ...
> > >
> > > Peter Logan
> > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > >
> > > From: "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com>
> > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > Date: 03/29/2012 10:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26600]
> > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > >
> > > One thing Peter, have you tried running this query under SET
> > OPTIMIZATION
> > > LOW? You have 10 tables in there, I'm willing to bet that a
> significant
> > > portion of the runtime is optimizing the query since there are
> 3,628,800
> >
> > > query plans that have to be examined and have cost calculated under
> the
> > > default HIGH optimization method versus only 54 query plans under LOW
> > > optimization.
> > >
> > > Art
> > >
> > > Art S. Kagel
> > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> opinions
> >
> > > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor
> any
> >
> > > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those
> of
> > > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am
> affiliated
> > > nor
> > > those of the entities themselves.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ok .. here is the really strange thing ...
> > > >
> > > > If I do away with the function ... and put in place the fiscal week
> id
> >
> > > ....
> > > > then up until week 36 one query plan is used ... and then from week
> 37
> >
> > > on,
> > > > a different query plan is used ... The first plan runs in a
> > minute...the
> > >
> > > > second several minutes ... when I put the directive on the query and
>
> > > > force it to use the order of the tables that was chosen by the
> > optimizer
> > >
> > > > it always runs in a minute ...
> > > >
> > > > I'm trying to see if an external directive will work for this one ..
>
> > > just
> > > > to give them that as a choice .. but I can't seem to get that
> working
> > > ....
> > > > I can save the external directive, but when I execute the sql, the
> > > > explain doesn't show the directive being used ... and I'm using the
> > > exact
> > > > sql to create the directive as well as execute the sql ... wondering
>
> > if
> > > > the function in the sql is messing that up ...
> > > >
> > > > Peter Logan
> > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > >
> > > > From: "Fernando Nunes" <domusonline@gmail.com>
> > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > Date: 03/29/2012 09:52 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26597]
> > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm.... Yes, I think I can understand the point, although tables
> > schema
> > >
> > > > would help.
> > > > I believe the problem is a well known issue (notice I use "issue"
> > > instead
> > > > of "bug"). And recent versions have been seeing changes in that
> area.
> > > >
> > > > Would I be correct to assume the bad query plan is using a
> > date/datetime
> > >
> > > > index? This could be one source of the problem, but in your case
> it's
> > > > probably another issue.
> > > > You're asking the optimizer to calculate a query plan based on the
> > > unknown
> > > >
> > > > result of a user function. As such the optimizer must
> > consider/estimate
> > > a
> > > > selectivity. Too low will make that index non attractive, and too
> high
> >
> > > > makes it too attractive. And the dramatic issue is that it has no
> way
> > to
> > >
> > > > make a good estimate.
> > > >
> > > > I believe that recent versions (11.50.FC9 and maybe 11.70.FC2/3) may
>
> > > have
> > > > change the way this selectivity is calculated. This solved many
> > > customer's
> > > >
> > > > problems and probably caused problems to many others...
> > > >
> > > > I'm not in developing but I believe 11.70.FC4 may have changed this.
>
> > And
> > >
> > > > eventually some improvements may appear in the future. Would it be
> too
> >
> > > > hard
> > > > for you to try that query on 11.70.FC4?
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if you had the chance to avoid the use of the function
> and
> > > give
> > > >
> > > > it the value the problem should not happen.
> > > > If you're sure that the query should NEVER use that index (on the
> > column
> > >
> > > > you're comparing with the function result), you can use some sort of
>
> > > > operation on it. For example:
> > > >
> > > > my_column + 0 UNITS DAY = ( SELECT WEEKID(...) FROM systables WHERE
> > > tabid
> > > > =
> > > > 0)
> > > >
> > > > This will avoid the use of any index on that column and will not
> > change
> > > > the
> > > > result set... hmmmm... But again, if that's a query generated from a
>
> > > tool
> > > > this may not be feasible.
> > > >
> > > > P.S.: Above I avoided using the term "bug" because this is a nasty
> > > > situation... We must consider some value for selectivity, but we
> have
> > no
> > >
> > > > idea about the possible or probable result of the function. So
> > basically
> > >
> > > > we're blind... I can't imagine a good solution (that will fit all
> the
> > > > scenarios) for this.
> > > >
> > > > Regards.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the reply ... Yes, the auto stats updating has been
> > > disabled
> > > > > ... and I am aware of the external optimizer directives ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me try to sum this up a little differently ... when the date
> was
> >
> > > say
> > > >
> > > > > 9/15/2011 .... one query plan was followed ... the one that works
> > ....
> > > > now
> > > > > that the date is 3/28/2012 ... the optimizer is choosing a
> different
> >
> > > > path
> > > > > ... so, what it seems to me is that the optimizer must be
> evaluating
> >
> > > > that
> > > > > part of the query .. and then figuring out the query plan from
> there
> >
> > > ....
> > > > I
> > > > > could understand that if this was a constant, but this isn't ...
> the
> >
> > > > > select weekid(today, -1) from systables where tabid = 1 is a
> > procedure
> > >
> > > > > that brings back the fiscal week id .. ie 201252 ... does that
> make
> > a
> > > > > little ore sense ... I'm trying to figure out if the optimizer is
> > > making
> > > >
> > > > > that evaluation .. then coming up with the plan.... and if so, how
>
> > to
> > > > keep
> > > > > it from doing that ....
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Logan
> > > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Fernando Nunes" <domusonline@gmail.com>
> > > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > > Date: 03/28/2012 05:11 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Optimizer [26592]
> > > > > Sent by: ids-bounces@iiug.org
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm afraid I didn't understand your point correctly. You mention
> the
> >
> > > > > select
> > > > > from systables but I didn't understand how it's relevant for the
> > > > problem.
> > > > > Are you saying that query presented works fine but if you use the
> > > select
> > > >
> > > > > from systables instead of:
> > > > >
> > > > > and a12.fiscal_week_id in (201253)
> > > > >
> > > > > It will break the query plan?
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case a few warnings and maybe some useful information:
> > > > >
> > > > > - 11.7 alreay includes the AUTO_STAT_MODE parameter. This
> activates
> > or
> > >
> > > > > deactivates the optimization that says to the engine that "if the
> > > table
> > > > > doesn't change too much don't bother to update it's statistics". I
>
> > had
> > > a
> > > >
> > > > > recent situation where the default threshold was causing some
> > stalled
> > > > > statistics and it made a difference on the query plans. And the
> > > > > probability
> > > > > that this happens with queries involving time/dates is higher than
>
> > > with
> > > > > other types of filters (because these fields many times tend to be
>
> > > > > populated with constantly increasing values, so statistically
> > > something
> > > > > that makes the filter "column > today - some_time" look good will
> in
> >
> > > > time
> > > > > lead to bad choices)
> > > > >
> > > > > - You can activate optimizer directives for any query outside the
> > > > > applications by using the External Directives feature. I will not
> go
> >
> > > > into
> > > > > details, because it could take a while, but if you're not aware of
>
> > > this
> > > > > and
> > > > > need further information, please tell. In any case I'm against the
>
> > > > > principle of using directives to solve query plans problems...
> after
> >
> > > all
> > > >
> > > > > we
> > > > > have an optimizer... we're not Oracle :)
> > > > >
> > > > > So, my advise:
> > > > > - Verify that the distributions are really up to date (disable
> > > > > AUTO_STAT_MODE) and run them (it's dynamic and I believe there's a
>
> > way
> > >
> > > > to
> > > > > control it inside the session (either with SET ENVIRONMENT or with
> a
> >
> > > > > environment variable)
> > > > > - If you never used the external optimizer directives, please
> > > > investigate
> > > > > them. Sometimes you can get away with them to quickly solve a
> > > > performance
> > > > > problem. But my advise is to always investigate this kind of
> > problems
> > > > and
> > > > > find a definitive solution
> > > > > - You could of course re-post your problem in a manner I can
> > > understand,
> > > >
> > > > > or
> > > > > wait until someone smarter to answer you :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com <
> > > > > Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Aix 6.1
> > > > > > IDS 11.70.fc3
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The below query was executing ok, and then recently it started
> > > taking
> > > > a
> > > > > > lot longer... In looking at the query plans, the order of the
> > tables
> > >
> > > > > > changed a few weeks ago... Amount of data and stats in the
> tables
> > > > > haven't
> > > > > > changed dramatically ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The question I have, is ... Is the optimizer smart enough to
> > execute
> > >
> > > > the
> > > > >
> > > > > > (select weekid(today, -1) from systables where tabid = 1 ... I
> can
> >
> > > > > > duplicate if I take that select out and hard code the fiscal
> week
> > id
> > >
> > > > ...
> > > > > > runs about a minute .. then runs about 4 minutes. The query plan
>
> > > > changes
> > > > >
> > > > > > ... If I do run the query with the directive ... then I can
> > > > consistently
> > > > >
> > > > > > get it to run around a minute .. The problem is that this is a
> > Micro
> > >
> > > > > > Strategies report, so that optimizer directive can't be included
>
> > > .....
> > > > > > Any help would be appreciated ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Logan
> > > > > > Senior Database Administrator
> > > > > > Phone: 616/878-8309
> > > > > > ----- Forwarded by Peter Logan/Corporate/Spartan on 03/28/2012
> > 03:53
> > >
> > > > PM
> > > > > > -----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: plisad0 (spartan02) <plisad0@spartanstores.com>
> > > > > > To: Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com
> > > > > > Date: 03/28/2012 03:52 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Optimizer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- select --+ORDERED
> > > > > > select
> > > > > > a18.mdse_grp_key mdse_grp_key,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a12.fiscal_week_id fiscal_week_id,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a13.catgy_manager_key catgy_manager_key,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (sum(a11.total_sales_amt) * 0.001) WJXBFS1,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sum(a11.ext_profit_amt) WJXBFS2,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sum(a11.total_sales_amt) WJXBFS3,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sum(a11.ext_profit_amt) WJXBFS4
> > > > > > from
> > > > > >
> > > > > > week_to_year_lkp a12,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > channel a16,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > chain a15,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > line a14,
> > > > > > efin_wk_line_cls a11,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mdse_class_manager a13,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mdse_class a17,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mdse_category a18,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mdse_group a19,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > department a110,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > business_dept a111
> > > > > > where a11.fiscal_week_id = a12.fiscal_wty_id and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a11.mdse_class_key = a13.mdse_class_key and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a11.sales_line_id = a14.sales_line_id and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a14.sales_chain_id = a15.sales_chain_id and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a15.sales_channel_id = a16.sales_channel_id and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a11.mdse_class_key = a17.mdse_class_key and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a17.mdse_catgy_key = a18.mdse_catgy_key and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a18.mdse_grp_key = a19.mdse_grp_key and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a19.dept_key = a110.dept_key and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a110.bus_dept_key = a111.bus_dept_key
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and (a16.enterprise_id in (18)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a13.catgy_manager_key in (70)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a110.dept_grp_key not in (525, 9)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a14.format_type_id in ('SUPERMKT ')
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a12.fiscal_week_id in (201253)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and a111.dept_grp_type_key in (1))
> > > > > > group by a18.mdse_grp_key,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a12.fiscal_week_id,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a13.catgy_manager_key
> > > > > > into temp ZZMD03 with no log
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> > forum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Fernando Nunes
> > > > > Portugal
> > > > >
> > > > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
> > > > > My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
> > > > >
> > > > > --0023544710d08e6fef04bc540bf4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Fernando Nunes
> > > > Portugal
> > > >
> > > > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
> > > > My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
> > > >
> > > > --20cf3074d934d0d33704bc6205a4
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
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> >
> > >
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --e89a8f3ba75f130a3204bc62783a
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> > >
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
>
> >
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --14dae93406612b710604bc62e2a6
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> *******************************************************************************
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> >
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> *******************************************************************************
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> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --90e6ba6e8f247d81ca04bc639641
>
>
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> *******************************************************************************
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> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
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> *******************************************************************************
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>
>
--e89a8f3ba503bf128404bc64669d
Messages In This Thread
- Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Wednesday, 28 March 2012, at 3:59 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Fernando Nunes -- Wednesday, 28 March 2012, at 5:11 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 8:27 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Fernando Nunes -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 9:51 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 10:06 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Art Kagel -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 10:23 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 10:43 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Art Kagel -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 10:53 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 10:57 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Art Kagel -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 11:43 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 11:50 a.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Art Kagel -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 12:42 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 1:24 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Fernando Nunes -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 1:52 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Fernando Nunes -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 1:49 p.m.
- Re: Fw: Optimizer
Peter_Logan@spartanstores.com -- Thursday, 29 March 2012, at 2:02 p.m.
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