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IDS Forum

Re: Corrupt system catalog

Posted By: Art Kagel
Date: Friday, 15 March 2013, at 2:39 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Corrupt system catalog (david@smooth1.co.uk)

You mean at Bloomberg back in the '90s? Bloomberg had its own home grown
databases. When they POC's RDBMSes the POC team had to prove to doubters
in development that it would be as fast as the BBDB databases. They did
that by cutting corners and using sub-optimal schema like not turning
logging on and making a "timeseries like" record with 31 days of prices and
volumes packed into a single CHAR(129) column. When I got there I said "No
logging is a BAD idea." but it took four years and that incident to change
their minds about logging (never won the schema fight - it's still that way
in some DB2 and Oracle databases they've built since). Fortunately the
consultant who helped them build their earliest apps and middleware had
coded for transaction support detection as did I for the apps and
middleware I built for them, so the transition was painless.

Art

Art S. Kagel
Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/

Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor
those of the entities themselves.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:30 PM, david@smooth1.co.uk <david@smooth1.co.uk>wrote:

> Question for everyone.
>
> How come you use unlogged databases for something that is not scratch space
> e.g.
> ETL staging area?
>
> David.
>
> On 15 March 2013 at 18:24 Art Kagel <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote:
> > While at Bloomberg, we used to have to rebuild an index or two ever time
> > the servers were bounced or crashed. We lost 6 indexes (2 each) on the
> > three largest tables in our news database on all three news servers one
> > weekend. I worked all day that Sunday until 5AM on Monday to get on
> server
> > back online in time for the markets in the morning and left to get some
> > sleep with the last indexes building (one on a second server and two on
> > the last one). Was awakened at 9AM by a screaming development director
> > asking "Why the F&%$ are you home when I have only one news server
> online?
> > Get your F&%$ing A$$ in here and fix it!" I sleepily explained the
> > situation slammed the phone down and got dressed. Arrived to an abashed
> > uber boss apologizing for not knowing that I'd been in the office for
> > almost 28 hours before going home and by-the-way I was right the second
> > news server had come back online before I got back into the office. Two
> > weeks later they finally let me turn logging on for all of our databases
> on
> > 45 server instances and I only lost one other index in the following ten
> > years even though data volumes, transaction rates, and numbers of
> ultimate
> > users had more than doubled in that time.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > Art S. Kagel
> > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> > and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
> > other organization with which I am associated either explicitly,
> > implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of
> > other individuals affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated
> nor
> > those of the entities themselves.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Andrew Ford
> <andrew@informix-dba.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks everyone for the input.
> > >
> > > Something fishy is going on. They had 3 corrupt indexes in one database
> and
> > > at least one corrupt sysdistrib index in another all showing up at
> about
> > > the
> > > same time and very quickly, this instance has been up for no more than
> a
> > > week.
> > >
> > > The instance is running on a virtual machine that I have no control
> over,
> > > I'm thinking something happened at the disk level (cooked chunks) while
> the
> > > engine was online.
> > >
> > > I haven't dealt with unlogged databases in a long time. I have
> experienced
> > > some index corruption using them, but not as much as this and not as
> > > quickly
> > > as this.
> > >
> > > I'm going to try the delete from sysdistrib trick to see if that will
> allow
> > > me to drop the database with corruption. I doubt we will call in IBM
> > > support
> > > on this Innovator-C instance. I can unload the data/reinit the
> > > instance/recreate the dbs/reload the data in the time it would take to
> get
> > > the paper work together.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of
> Art
> > > Kagel
> > > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 10:16 AM
> > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > Subject: Re: Corrupt system catalog [29761]
> > >
> > > OK, that fits with my experience. Only unlogged databases experience
> index
> > > corruption except in extreme circumstances.
> > >
> > > One thing you could try is to delete all the rows in the sysdistrib
> table
> > > and see if that lets the server 'repair' the index structure.
> > >
> > > So, if you can unload the data, the only option may be to reload it
> into a
> > > clean new database. If there aren' t too many other databases I'd scrap
> the
> > > instance and start over. Alternatively if you have support on this
> server,
> > > IBM may be able to make the database "go away".
> > > Art S. Kagel
> > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> opinions
> > > and
> > > do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the IIUG, nor any
> other
> > > organization with which I am associated either explicitly, implicitly,
> or
> > > by
> > > inference. Neither do those opinions reflect those of other individuals
> > > affiliated with any entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the
> > > entities themselves.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Andrew Ford
> > > <andrew@informix-dba.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not given that option by oncheck, it just say lets me know there
> > > > is corruption but doesn't ask me if I'd like to fix it.
> > > >
> > > > This is NOT a logged database.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ids-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:ids-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > Art Kagel
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:46 PM
> > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Corrupt system catalog [29754]
> > > >
> > > > Have you tried to let oncheck repair/rebuild the damaged index? Just
> > > > for curiosity sake, is this a logged database?
> > > >
> > > > Art
> > > >
> > > > Art S. Kagel
> > > > Advanced DataTools (www.advancedatatools.com)
> > > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> > > > opinions and do not reflect on my employer, Advanced DataTools, the
> > > > IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am associated either
> > > > explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do those opinions
> > > > reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any entity with
> > > > which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Andrew Ford
> > > > <andrew@informix-dba.com>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 11.70.UC7IE running on Ubuntu
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got a corrupt sysdistrib table somehow
> > > > >
> > > > > $ oncheck -cDI breaker_pnl_old:sysdistrib
> > > > >
> > > > > Validating indexes for breaker_pnl_old:informix.sysdistrib...
> > > > >
> > > > > Index distrib
> > > > >
> > > > > Could not bfget pagenum 0x5be, iserrno 105
> > > > >
> > > > > ISAM error: illegal key descriptor (too many parts or too long).
> > > > >
> > > > > ERROR: Index distrib for breaker_pnl_old:informix.sysdistrib is
> bad.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am able to successfully unload/reload the database into a new
> copy
> > > > > of the db, but any attempt to drop the old database with the
> corrupt
> > > > > sysdistrib table is met with
> > > > >
> > > > > 211: Cannot read system catalog (sysdistrib).
> > > > >
> > > > > 105: ISAM error: bad isam file format.
> > > > >
> > > > > and any attempt to drop the distrib index runs into
> > > > >
> > > > > 511: Cannot modify system catalog (sysdistrib).
> > > > >
> > > > > Short of unloading all data and an oninit -i is there anything I
> can
> > > > > do to drop the db with the corrupt system catalog table?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> **********************************************************************
> > > > ******
> > > > ***
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --e89a8f2346598d9c5404d7ee7b8d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> **********************************************************************
> > > > ******
> > > > ***
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
> ****************************************************************************
> > > ***
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --bcaec54b48d01379e704d7f81c7b
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> ****************************************************************************
> > > ***
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> *******************************************************************************
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --bcaec554dbc86e7ffe04d7fabf98
> >
> >
> >
>
> *******************************************************************************
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
>
>
>
> *******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>

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